MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit

What Does MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit Talk About?

In this episode of the Mads Singers Management Podcast, host Mads Singers welcomes Mark Herschberg, author of 'The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You.' They discuss the gap between what we learn in school and what we need for career and life success. Mark shares his unique background of 20 years teaching at MIT and 20 years as a CTO, offering insights on networking, negotiation, and personal growth. The conversation explores how activities like ballroom dancing and Toastmasters can build confidence and networking skills without traditional networking events. They also delve into the value of training employees in negotiation, even if it means they might use those skills against their managers.

If I made mistakes, it wasn’t the end of the world.Mark Herschberg

Who Is Featured on MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit?

Mark Herschberg is a rare combination of academic and industry leader. He spent two decades teaching at MIT and another two decades as a CTO, working with startups and Fortune 500 companies. He is the author of 'The Career Toolkit,' a book that addresses essential skills not taught in school. Mark shares personal stories, including using ballroom dancing to overcome his fear of public speaking and networking, demonstrating his practical approach to personal development.

What Are the Key Takeaways From MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit?

• The best salesperson does not necessarily make the best sales manager without proper training.
• People often dislike managing because they lack the necessary skills, not because it is inherently unenjoyable.
• Being incrementally better than your competition is more effective than striving to be the world's greatest.
• Networking can occur naturally by pursuing interesting activities, without the need for formal networking events.
• Training employees to negotiate benefits both parties, as good negotiators create win-win outcomes rather than zero-sum games.

What if they use that against me? It’s always better to negotiate against a good negotiator than a bad one.Mark Herschberg

Is MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit Worth Listening To?

This episode is highly recommended for managers and professionals looking to develop practical skills not taught in school. Mark Herschberg offers actionable advice on networking, negotiation, and personal growth, backed by his unique blend of academic and industry experience. The conversation is engaging and filled with relatable stories that make complex concepts easy to understand.

Who Should Listen to MSMP 86: Mark Herschberg on the Career Toolkit?

• Managers seeking to improve their leadership skills
• Professionals wanting to enhance negotiation abilities
• Introverts looking for networking strategies
• Anyone interested in career development beyond formal education

What Are Listeners Saying About This Episode?

We often complain about the fact that there’s so much that “they” don’t teach us in school that we need not just for our careers, but for life.  Turns out that instead of just adding one more voice to that chorus, someone decided to address those challenges by writing a book.

Today’s guest for the Mads Singers Management Podcast, Mark Herschberg, is the author of the new book The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You.  Mark has managed to pull off a rare trick: 20 years in academia, teaching at MIT, and 20 years as a CTO, working with garage startups and Fortune 500 companies alike.

One of the aspects of our conversation that I found funny was how both Mark and I had to intentionally overcome parts of our own personalities in order to live the lives we do now.  For me, as a classic introvert, I chose to ride a bus to work early in my career.  I started with “Hi”s to strangers and when that became easier, I graduated to “Hi, how are you?”  Mark’s technique was more dramatic: he used ballroom dancing.  “If I made mistakes, it wasn’t the end of the world,” he noted.  He took what may have been “high stakes” for others and turned it into a practice ground for himself.  Not only did he become better at networking, but dancing gave confidence to his public speaking. 
 

I shared that Toastmasters had been part of my own journey to improve in public speaking, and we noted that activities and hobbies like dancing or Toastmasters serve as their own form of networking.  Rather than having to subject ourselves to the sometimes cringey world of “networking events” we have both come to realize over time that when you pursue interesting things you will run into interesting people.  And before too long, you’re “networking” without even knowing it.

We also spoke about the value of negotiation and how some managers are “afraid” to train their employees to negotiate: “What if they use that against me?”  But Mark really noted that this isn’t a smart way to think.  It’s always better to negotiate against a good negotiator than a bad one.  A good one figures out how to get the best outcomes for everyone instead of playing a zero-sum game.  Yes, they may use their new negotiation skills “against” you, but they will appreciate your investment in them as a person, not just as a numbered employee. 

Mark is so full of fascinating stories and helpful lessons that this episode could have easily gone on longer.  I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. 

Key Learning Points:

1. Mads notes that the best salesperson doesn’t necessarily make the best sales manager, and certainly can’t become one without training - 3:43

2. Mads shares that often when people say they “don’t like managing” it’s because they don’t know how - 5:20

3. Mark stresses the importance of being incrementally better than your competition rather than focusing on being the “world’s greatest” - 7:07

4. Mark used ballroom dancing to help with his fear of public speaking - 11:04

5. Mark gives us a tactic to get networking results without attending “networking events” - 15:05

6. Mark has been encouraging people to re-invest the time they have saved with Covid - 23:40

7. Mark talks about the importance of learning how to learn - 30:00

8. Mark goes back to memories of geometry in school to connect learning to life - 33:45

9. Mark makes the case for training your team to negotiate better (even if it’s against you) - 37:45

10. Mark points out that there’s no substitute for practicing what you learn in books, courses, and podcasts - 42:20

11. Mads talks about the prestige and advantages that come from hosting groups - 47:30

Resources Mentioned:

The Career Toolkit

3D Negotiation

Bargaining for Advantage

Start with No

Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher

Never Split the Difference

Good for You Great for Me

Connect with Mark Herschberg:

The Career Toolkit